We gave the floor to Stéphane Derenoncourt and Jérôme Gagnez, two iconoclastic professionals, two figures with large audiences and astonishingly free speech. The world-renowned consultant and the France Inter columnist open up about the crisis, the way out of the crisis and the renewal of profiles, without concession and with the frankness that characterises them.
What is your analysis of the current crisis?
Stéphane Derenoncourt: It is a problem that has been smouldering for a long time and that we did not want, or know how, to face. A soft machine settled in and created a disaffection with Bordeaux to which we did not know how to respond, for lack of suitable communication and above all for failing to renew ties with consumers. Bordeaux thus made itself forgotten and all that was remembered was what glitters: the classified growths and the speculative wines. It was counterproductive for promoting a regional or identity-based philosophy and it had the consequence of leaving an entire artisanal and family production by the wayside.
Overall, communication has not been up to the mark for more than two decades, nor has the way of distributing wine, which is no longer in tune, even obsolete. We must add the fact that few crus today are embodied. The others still prefer to reassure themselves with stories that are falling into disuse, including the classifications, to which nobody pays attention any more. This Bordeaux projects the image of a sclerotic industry. I hope we are touching bottom and that this will lead to more appropriate actions.
There is also a whole part of Bordeaux, admittedly a minority, that anticipated this crisis, that did not have the codes at the outset to enter the system of the négoce and brokers, and that in fact had to fend for itself. These Bordelais are precisely the ones doing well today because they are regarded as winegrowers who bring to the market the products people expect, accompanied by stories that at last make people dream a little. In that case, there is no reason why it should not work.
Jérôme Gagnez: I entirely agree with what Stéphane has just said! There is a major problem of distribution and indeed a major problem of embodiment. There was a problem of wine style which is today being resolved, even if some wines are still too marked by ageing. There has been a real awareness. I still think communication has suffered from the fact that the industry’s institutions long advocated pure egalitarianism and perhaps communicated too little about a few figures and leaders, about winegrowers – and there are a great many in Bordeaux – who, as Stéphane said, are moving the lines and responding perfectly to the market.
Furthermore, Bordeaux did not communicate enough about organic, particularly when it was attacked on pesticides, given that it was already one of the most virtuous AOPs, or in any case showed willingness on this subject, and that the labelled grands crus and the institution did not communicate enough in that direction, preferring to bury their heads in the sand. I imagine the prevailing idea was “we mustn’t communicate on organic so as not to — by implication — denigrate conventional growers”. It was an original communication error. Today we must communicate on the smaller appellations, which are more embodied, on craftsmanship, on the quality of the wines, on value for money. Let us build on Clairet, which meets consumer expectations perfectly, or on crémants, which are booming with the whole cooperative sector behind them. There are many subjects and much hope, but communication is not up to it.
And distribution in this context?
SD : It sometimes seems to me that we have stayed in an era when Bordeaux was hegemonic, represented a pinnacle of quality and when wine was not sold but people came to fetch it… Today the customer no longer comes to fetch it. The négociants, who are not salespeople, have not structured themselves to go and find these customers and consumers. They are not out in the field, at the heart of this battle; they are not in the match, where all the others are. For Bordeaux today, the adage “out of sight, out of mind” prevails.
Hence some desire to turn away from the Place to go and find these customers?
SD : They don’t have much choice; some are facing a wall. More and more châteaux that are accumulating stocks, whatever their reputation, are now rolling up their sleeves to go into the field. In the days when everything was running smoothly, the négoce side represented up to 20% of a company’s turnover; that’s a big investment. That’s how I reasoned for my estate: “If I have 20% to invest in sales, what can I do…”.
When the partner fails or is of less interest, you do it yourself, and that is, it must be said, somewhat what is taking shape. People are going to go and find the markets themselves, which is still very complicated for a reason that lies with the négoce. Because since the Place has been doing less well, the négoce is often a little inconsistent in its pricing policy. A lot can be bought back for less than it was previously bought for and ends up sold off on the market, and that discredits the estate. We certainly need to do a bit of housekeeping, to restore a little consistency so as not to see wines coming out at any price. It sends a bad signal insofar as it damages the relationship of trust established with one’s customer. This necessary reset will take a few years.
You who are a little outside this Place, what is your view?
JG : We are talking here essentially and obviously about the classified growths, which are also facing a drop in sales. I think they raised their prices too much for a long time, but I don’t know whether they are aware of it; I’m not sure all of them have made their aggiornamento. I am sure that other winegrowers in France make very great wines without selling their bottle at 200 euros. I am aware that it will be difficult to lower prices that have been raised for 20 years without ruffling the earlier buyers, who paid the full price.
I don’t know how to get out of this rut, but I believe above all that we need to talk about all the rest, about the Bordeaux region, where rebuilding a distribution channel will take years, whereas it is urgent and they are being forced to sell their wine cheaply, to fight to exist without having the time to build these distribution networks. I am only moderately worried for the great names, who in most cases will be able to cope with this crisis, which will not be the case for the other crus that are not embodied and not visible because they do not do, no longer know how to do, what winegrowers in all the other regions of France do, that is, go out to meet customers to sell. A guy like Romain Paire, whose wines are obtained by allocation, still criss-crosses the country in his van today. He does the job of a winegrower, it’s as simple as that!
SD : I will reinforce Jérôme’s point to mention an acceleration in the crisis that occurred in 2024, with an en primeur release at minus 25%, which tells us that we have gone beyond the simple notion of price, since it is the business that is not happening! One can indeed swoon with admiration over a mouthfeel, the quality of a texture, but we must remember that the best wine is the one that sells. The en primeur system, which was a real goose that laid golden eggs, long allowed informed enthusiasts to acquire great wines at 20 or 30% off.
I buy wines en primeur, but when I notice that wines I bought two years ago are turning up cheaper than I paid for them in wine fair catalogues, I feel cheated. The system has been in decline for twenty years and market players say there are now about thirty brands that work, which is too few. It is a sign that this system has run its course, that it no longer even interests the Wine Spectator, and I knew a time when foreign salespeople came in cohorts, whereas today they come in a greatly reduced contingent. They used to stay a fortnight against four days today, confining themselves to doing the Union des Grands Crus because they find there everything that sells en primeur and honour few other châteaux or estates.
For this 2024 vintage, which is an average year, even if it is fascinating insofar as it will reveal the great winegrowers, buyers will not rush. Aware of the inconvenience, some buyers go as far as asking for offers of previous vintages to be sent, on which they could commit if need be. If we add to this a 2023 campaign that did not work and a 2024 announced as somewhat subdued, en primeur has taken a serious blow to the back of the head.
What would you do with this former goose that laid golden eggs?
SD : I find this situation, of course, very regrettable, since we must remember that it was a party, that the heart of Bordeaux beat to the rhythm of this event. The whole world met in Bordeaux. It was, I repeat, a magnificent operation, but from the moment you cannot guarantee the people who buy the wine that they can make margins, it no longer works. In Côte-Rôtie, they work with more than 20% margin, whereas here we are at around 2 to 3%. It is also the problem of the Place, which made a lot of margin with few expensive wines, which let it finance its business throughout the year. We are clearly at the end of a system.
JG : Like Stéphane, I find it very sad if it stops, because it is the finest promotional operation that has ever existed in the wine world. It is far superior to the Hospices de Beaune sale or the Paulée de Meursault. The Grands Jours de Bourgogne are moreover a replica of the en primeur week. If it no longer has the lustre of old, you can see that it still draws people from all over the world; the châteaux invite people to dinner, it is a great and beautiful celebration of Bordeaux wine. We must indeed open a debate about its existence and the form it should take, namely do we continue to have people taste en primeur wines, or released wines? Do we invent a festival or create shows? We must sit around a table and do everything to keep this incredibly precious event.
Is there a mismatch between market expectations and Bordeaux wines?
SD : Yes and no. It’s a communication problem. In Bordeaux we are in a microcosmic world with its own codes, its players trained in the same schools who go away for weekends together. One can therefore invoke a certain lack of openness leading, in fine, to the fact that they did not see the world changing around them. A few outsiders saw it, the very ones who took their van, as Jérôme said. That said, I find that for 20 years Bordeaux has initiated a change of style, a purge that has seen the imitations of great châteaux gradually disappear. These are moreover the ones we see at indecent prices in the distribution networks. There will be an acceleration of this purge since we have no solution for selling these wines. I would add that winegrowers must be better supported, either by a strong négoce or by a suitable distribution network.
JG : We must distinguish the classified growths from the rest, since the former initiated a style that was very popular for export. They have, in fact, drifted a little from their domestic market because they do not offer the products expected by this domestic market. For the rest of the Bordeaux region, there are indeed changes, a diversity of offer with lovely Bordeaux that are more digestible and more accessible without completely renouncing a form of structure and power. I still regret the intellectual imprint of wood in the minds of Bordeaux winemakers. Oenologists are still too timid or reluctant to depart from this model. I would add, and point out, that one of the beauties of en primeur is that it lets us taste juices not yet battered by ageing! We then see that there is plenty of very lovely material in Bordeaux. The style is evolving well; I see it often in my blind tastings in the various ODGs. It is up to us journalists to talk about these digestible, elegant and fine wines. Bordeaux absolutely must communicate around these stylistic changes.
SD : I have always been in this movement and I was often labelled, when I was better known, as “the anti-Rolland”, which I never claimed since he made great wines. I came with the eye of a self-taught person and I told myself, having done every job from vine to cellar, that there was a form of sacralisation of the bunch that was true as long as it was hanging on the vine. On harvest day, we went to war, whether in the handling of the grapes, in the reception of the harvest, or in the way of extracting with enormous violence. It seemed to me then that this notion of love for the plant needed to be taken a little further in order to have slightly different wines. I think I can say that my wines were always recognisable by their more rounded, suave and sensual profile. I have always been in this movement.
Beyond the technical exercise, the Bdx le jus brand has initiated an eco-responsible model that allows winegrowers to sell their wine under this label. It is modest in that we started with 15,000 bottles and are today nonetheless at 50,000. Despite the economic gloom, I see that it works because the contextual analysis was done and the boxes of expectations were ticked. It is also an evolution of what the négoce is and should be. It is still a shame that out of the 100,000 hectares in Bordeaux, we do not have a single strong and genuinely international brand. The virtues of Bdx le jus are eco-responsibility and solidarity. With this brand, I advocate an economic model that genuinely pays the winegrower. From the moment it is done properly, the arguments are right and the product tells something sincere and honest, there is no reason why it should not work. Then, indeed, I have to fight a little against those who consider, rightly, that it is négoce, but done this way, négoce is dignified.
My career is behind me; today I want to have fun and send good messages. I believe a fundamental rethink is under way among the grands crus. They note that the model is lopsided, as it works only for a meagre portion, not to mention the effects of the reshaping of a region in which the equivalent of the area of Champagne will be pulled up and where climate change is reshuffling the cards. These few crus are holding discussions with experts who were not recruited from the Bordeaux gotha, with a different outlook. I, who have after all often been regarded as the resident outsider, have thus been consulted. Here are a few positive signals.
What about simple but elegant wines in Bordeaux?
SD : I’m happy to say a word on that! It is often said that to know where you are going, you must know where you come from, and Bordeaux has forgotten where it came from. Indeed, Bordeaux was also for a long time the little glass drunk at the counter. A digestible, easy wine that existed alongside the noble grand cru, with the fine story that built its renown. We must rediscover our ability to make “canons” (everyday glasses), without betraying ourselves, just going back to where we come from, adapting them and integrating a necessary environmental dimension. Bordeaux’s salvation will come through a return to its origins by making inexpensive wines that give people pleasure.
JG : I can only agree with that observation. Clairet, in my view, answers this need for digestible, of-the-moment wines rather well. For Clairet, it is just a matter of the spotlight having been badly positioned, and of no longer presenting it as a dark rosé but as a light red. Communication must take hold of this traditional wine to explain that in Bordeaux, we know how to make digestible reds. Moreover, there are already winegrowers who have taken up the subject; I would cite Mazeris-Bellevue in Fronsac or François Despagne in Saint-Émilion. These wines arrive at just the right moment, as there is a fall in consumption of very pale Provence rosés. Clairet can be a way of seducing the young consumer while anchoring them in the Gironde territory. I would like to add something concerning this Bordeaux communication.
I have often been surprised by the lack of reaction from the Bordeaux institution following my columns on France Inter in “On Va Déguster”, listened to by more than two million listeners. Yet I have often held out the pole on Clairet or on crémant, which have undeniably gained stripes and gained in quality, in particular the crémants from cooperative cellars made on a model fairly close to the Champagne model.
Apart from crémant, what about whites in Bordeaux?
SD : I am bringing out a white Bdx le jus in spring, from Bordeaux’s emblematic variety, Sémillon, which was long in the shadow of the more accessible, easier and more recognisable Sauvignon Blanc. I would very much like to gather around this brand a somewhat associative négoce with shared thinking. A sort of alliance between négoce and a cooperative-cellar spirit, far from an omnipotent négoce that manages its strategy alone in its corner. I believe a lot in this more collaborative and benevolent model, whereas the crisis tends rather to set us against one another and make us aggressive. That is not how we will save ourselves from the crisis. Wine is human adventures and conviviality; we must not forget it.
What is the ideal Bordeaux for you?
JG : There are two. There is the old Bordeaux with a very patinated Cabernet Sauvignon with smoky, bouquet-rich notes, and there is the Castillon-style Bordeaux with a sensual Merlot, wines with structure that you can drink. We must not forget Sauternes, which remains and must remain the soul of Bordeaux.
SD : I would be fairly close to what has just been said. What is fabulous in this region is that we have every spectrum of wines you can imagine. The historic and cultural wine with its capacity to stand the test of time, and the accessible, fine, light and fresh Bordeaux. There are meditation wines and drinking wines. You cannot separate the two, and that is what makes Bordeaux strong.
